San Quentin News editors Michael R. Harris and David Marsh sat down recently with San Quentin Warden Vincent Cullen (A). Cullen took over from Robert K. Wong on January 1 after serving one year as San Quentin’s Chief Deputy Warden (CDW). The transcribed interview is edited for space and clarity.
Does anything stand out from your time as CDW?
It seems like about only six months have gone by, when you think about it, it’s been well over a year now… Transitioning and closing of Neumiller [South Block] and the TTA [Triage Treatment Area] over there, and doing it in a very, very, expeditious manner…. You know we all did a very good job on that and opened up a successful Central Health Services Building that’s fully functioning and firing on all cylinders
Can you talk about the state’s budget crisis as it relates to programming cuts here?
I would characterize the one day where we actually lost teachers here, where they were actually laid off and do not have a job, as probably one of the darkest days in my 20 plus years in this department. That was very difficult for me…. [We’re] still in the process of rolling out the new education models and…we’ll see some more of the changes coming about. Loss of vocational programming state wide, I think, is a big hit for the inmate population.
What is left of the “R” in CDCR?
[There] is still an opportunity for inmates to rehabilitate The number of slots that we originally had may not be the same, but certainly an opportunity is still there, and hopefully we will get those slots back… [Sacramento] focused on looking at and assessing particular vocational programs and trying to form a nexus between the program and a livable wage on the street as sort of a nexus to employment. So when some programs were eliminated those were the programs that, in the department’s analysis, were those that did not really have a living wage out in the street or a nexus to employment for an inmate who’s paroling. I think we’re fortunate here in that because of the large number of volunteer programs we have not been impacted as hard.
We understand the formula, but didn’t they consider how particular programs affect inmates in other ways, such as teaching them how to function in society, going to work every day, dealing with instructions?
It’s a good question. I don’t know, because quite frankly it was the Office of Correctional Education that went out and conducted the assessments… The new sort of direction is that with our limited funding…we really do need to focus on evidence-based programs that do reduce recidivism.
Isn’t there also an issue of security, because you want to keep guys busy?
You know one can certainly draw a conclusion that idle inmates are of concern to me, and that is still a concern to me, so again I’m glad I’m not at another institution where the number of idle inmates may have increased.
What can you tell us about the status of the Death Row construction project?
[CDCR Secretary Matthew] Cate visited the institution last week and I took the opportunity to ask him the exact same question. From a budgetary standpoint and from a legislative standpoint the condemned inmate complex is still an approved project here at San Quentin. Certainly these are tough economic times and tough times for the state budget but if I had my way then the project would still be moving forward. I think it’s long overdue for this institution for us to construct a new death row, and I think it would be a positive thing for staff and inmates alike… It’s possible and I’m hopeful.
Could the election for governor affect that?
You know what, election years there is a possibility for anything to happen so there are no predictors there at all.
What are the prospects for a multi-media center in the old library space?
There are a number of options that are out there in terms of forming a multi media center. I am very much in support of it. With the cuts that we took to our education and vocational programs I would say that the only positive that came out of this was the fact that we do have some space available in the institution… But with space any time in an institution you’re always going to have competing interests and we’re at the phase right now where we’re making assessment of what spaces can be utilized for what purposes. Sort of combined with all this…is the fact that any area which requires some real expensive retrofitting has an approval process well beyond the institution as well. And so fiscal considerations are going to come into play for this but certainly I’m in support of it and I do believe we’re going to have a multi-media center here.
Warden Wong restricted the ability of people involved in the Hobbycraft Program to work in their cells. Will that change?
I think that the hobby program that we have here is very fair and equitable to the inmate population… Right now quite frankly I think when you look at what’s happening and occurring at other institutions where almost all of them now are down to just an in-cell hobby program, I think we’re pretty fortunate here still, so is this something that’s high on my list? No. To make it less restrictive, no.
What’s the future of the Neumiller Building?
The intent when the receiver constructed the new Central Health Services Building was that Neumiller would be repurposed and have a seismic retrofit and would then be functioning as our programs building. Getting us out of the [Education] modules down here, getting us out of all the little various areas where we’ve had to kind of pigeonhole our programs. That was at a time, one, when the economy was running very strong, very good, the state of California had money, and two, that a lot of the programs were fully funded in this department. So two things have changed: One is the economy has gone down the tank, the State of California is $20 billion-plus in the hole for next year… Is this an approved project where they’re going to start repurposing next year? No, it’s not approved, it’s on paper, it’s on the schedule of proposed projects, among hundreds and hundreds of other projects from all around the state… So do I believe that we’re going to be moving back into Neumiller in the near future? Absolutely not! … That building is going to sit vacant.
Prison Ministries says it has been unable to donate shoes to the basketball and tennis teams. What was the difficulty?
It made it up to my desk as the chief and I denied it. It wasn’t as simple as the donation form said, for just the very specific basketball team. What was put on paper in front of me was hundreds of pairs of shoes for just general issuance out to the population. I’m not going to sign off on that. Now when you want to talk about some very specialized purposes I will revisit those type of things. But when …it literally said hundreds, two hundred pair, no I’m not going to allow that to come into the institution.
So in another form it might be acceptable?
Certainly!
Patten College wants to expand its operations here. What are your thoughts?
They have requested to expand their operating hours, which I do not have the staff to do. They have also asked to possibly expand into other areas in the institution which, is again part of that previous discussion that we had about competing interests in the institution. And that part of their expansion is still on the table and still part of the overall analysis of space. But certainly in terms of operating off-hours or on weekends, where I don’t have the custody staff present now, it’s not going to happen until I can get the custody staff.
What is the future of Close B transfers here at S.Q.? Is North Block destined to become only a Close B facility?
This institution and several others were actually directed to transfer out a lot of medium custody inmates, Level 2, to dorm prisons. The reason being is that there was a backup statewide of Close B inmates, Level 2, sitting in Level 3 beds which are much more expensive than Level 2. So that’s why a lot of the inmates were transferred out of here. In terms of Close B transfers in, it’s just going to be part of the normal routine process. We may get some medium guys transferring in, we may get Close B guys transferring in. Now there’s a lot of rumors bantering about in terms of inmates that are participating in rehabilitative programs. Currently down in our headquarters the whole concept of medium custody inmates being able to retain here for a period of time to finish out whatever rehab programming they’re participating in is being discussed and I’m hopeful that we’ll get some sort of resolution on that in the near future.
What is the future of executions here at San Quentin?
It was just recently announced in the media that the department has released our regulations for the lethal injection process. The office of administrative law has 30 working days to approve or disapprove those regulations. I think they were released on May 1, if I recall. So what happens from there, your guess is as good as mine.
What does your professional future hold for you at San Quentin?
I’m hopeful that I can stay here for quite some time… I think probably the biggest thing that I’d like to see is consistency at the top of the organization. And I know that it’s a struggle, not just for the staff, but also for the inmate population when you continually have people changing chairs in the warden’s office. At count I’ve heard six warden’s in five years and I think the biggest thing for me is, let’s get through the vetting process, let me be at the helm for quite some time so we can bring about that consistency. I think kind of in terms of goals for the prison is that with the changes to education that are forthcoming and the budgetary restriction that we have and kind of the staff morale issues associated with that, that, what I’m trying to bring about is a little bit of hope for the staff and for the inmates in terms of what we can do in the future… Funding is always the first and foremost restriction. Space is your second restriction. …I’m hopeful that as things get better that we can bring a lot of those teachers back.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about the system as a whole, where does this voice of experience come from?
I’ve worked at CMF, which is very heavy medical, very heavy psych mission, to Solano… One of my roles there was as project manager for the proof project but I was also an associate warden over the Level 2 yard… I’ve also worked in headquarters on two different stints, getting to know how things work, where to go to get answers… So having worked primarily from a business services standpoint and then transitioning to the custody role later on in my career, I think kind of rounds me out pretty well. And that’s why I’m able to address much of the facets of an institution from medical to mental health to business services to custody to education…
Is there an effort underway to pare back the number of volunteers who come into the prison?
Absolutely not. I just think that my role is to make sure that the volunteers that are entering into San Quentin are entering in safely, that they are safe while they are here and that they are accountable.
Do you have an open line of communication with the volunteer organizations or do you have someone appointed to making that transition smooth for the outside?
We have Laura Bowman Salzsieder who’s our community partnerships manager. But many of these groups that are coming into the institution will often set up meetings with me and I’ll meet with them directly and we’ll have a face to face conversation much as we’re having now.
What role do you see for the San Quentin News in the future?
Clearly the loss of that vocational program was of concern to everyone. …My goal is to keep this newspaper going as long as it possibly can… I think it’s an effective communication tool, not just for you guys but also for me as well. If there’s some message that I want to get out there, and I know that the newspaper is very well read within the institution, I know that you guys are more than willing to step up and say yeah, let’s put an article out there. I also think that I’m not sure if you guys really know that it’s actually known around the world now. It gets posted on the internet.
What does the future hold for additional budget cuts here at San Quentin, and for the CDCR as a whole?
I have no idea, by that I mean you will be apprised of changes to the department’s budget about the same time I will be just by watching the news. This is, I do believe, probably going to be one of the most contentious budget cycles just because of the large budget gap.
Do you perceive yourself as an “approachable warden,” and is that your purpose in appearing out among the general population, such as the baseball opener, the Health Fair and Patten College, among others? When you are out amongst the inmates, should they feel free to approach you with their ideas or problems, and are receptive to their inquiries?
Absolutely. And it’s not just being accessible to the inmate population, it’s being accessible to the staff as well. Often times some of the fellows want to come and they want to talk about personal issues, about what’s going on with them and I get that, and often times it’s hard for me to give them an off-the-cuff answer. But I think it’s important for me to hear the tenor of what’s going on in the institution.
A number of high-profile administration figures have come to the prison of late, notably Sec. Cate, Elizabeth Siggins and even the governor’s chief of staff, Susan Kennedy. Is there any significance to those visits?
I just honestly believe that San Quentin… just by its name, its notoriety, is our oldest prison in the state and quite frankly sometimes the proximity lends itself to a lot of visits from a lot of individuals and I encourage it. I encourage it so I actually get an opportunity to talk with some of these people and talk about the good things that are happening inside our institutions… Do I read into the fact that there is some bigger agenda? No absolutely not.
To what would you attribute the low level of violence here at S.Q.?
I think the population here has a philosophy about how to approach doing time and the staff wants to keep the violence down and works on how we can do that… Also, particularly when you’re talking about a Level 2 population, and you’re talking about North Block in particular, we have a very stable population here as well. We’re fortunate to have that.
What’s next for S.Q?
Tough, very tough, tough economic times and I think the biggest thing for me is to focus on morale. This is a positive programming institution and I want to keep that going as best we can. It’s a great place to work. If you would’ve asked me when I graduated from college would I ever be sitting in the chair in this warden’s office, in this prison, I … would’ve thought I was crazy. But for me it’s been very, very satisfying and hopefully, like I said, something I can stay with for quite some time because I’m very, very happy to be here!
